Curse

Red Sonya · Dec 12, 2005, 07:52 AM // 07:52

Play through the game? Are you crazy. People will just take their 20's and FIND where the 2ndary skill can be changed if it's only in CH2 and that will be that as they will just pop from city to city and load up on the buyable skills and then find out where they ALL can be bought and rush to that.

Playing through the content ended about the 1st month of the game. lol Taint much left but rushers anymore. Gotta have it gotta have it NOW don't wanna waste time...MINE MINE MINE! lol roflmao.

SaintGreg · Dec 12, 2005, 08:28 AM // 08:28

I agree, once you hit 10k faction with everything unlocked whats the point? Either increase the cap or remove it, or make a way to sell or give faction to people. That way at least something usefull comes of it. You could give faction to your guildies that need to unlock stuff, or you could sell it off and make some money. Mind you by now with all the people at full faction it'd probably be pretty cheap too.

Undivine · Dec 12, 2005, 09:35 AM // 09:35

Giving faction other uses does sound like a good idea. I'd /sign that.

dansamy · Dec 12, 2005, 11:22 AM // 11:22

I'd like the cap removed. PvE'ers don't have a cap for skillpoints.

dawnrain · Dec 12, 2005, 03:19 PM // 15:19

The purpose of the faction system was to provide a method for a PvP ONLY player to unlock skills and mods in a comparable amount of time as a PvE ONLY player. The faction system does this well, it need NOT be changed.

IMO, Anet has shown that they've given thought towards this balance between PvP ONLY players and PvE ONLY players in Chapter 1. I believe they will continue this consideration in Chapter 2, and when Chapter 2 is closer to release (and unlocking skill methods and availability is better known) this balance will be reviewed.

Epinephrine · Dec 12, 2005, 03:45 PM // 15:45

You know what - instead of a hard cap on faction, I'd rather this:

If you have less than 10k faction starting a run in any PvP venue your faction is not capped; you cannot lose out on gained faction while in a run.
If you have 10k+ faction when starting a run you are SOOL. Should have visited the priest. That way at least I'll never be screwed - any set cap you could hit in theory and lose out on faction.

Sniper22 · Dec 12, 2005, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chev of Hardass

I have been capped out for months. It is a real load of crap that faction has absolutely no use after unlock, and you cannot save it.

I call the bullshit flagg on this one. Give us a higher limit, or let us spend faction. I like the 15K faction per Ecto myself. Perhaps the limit should be removed, and faction should be tradeable for PvE items, like Ecto. Then there is another choice for the spender. Either unlock on opening day, or finnaly get that fissure armor.

/signed

Who cares if you can't spend your faction on anything, all the stupid skills and items I unlock are completely useless because I don't have a pvp only character/open slot and I still play PvP. 15k faction for an ecto is extremely cheap considering how hard it is to get one. I think it's bad enough how easy it is for pvp only characters to get the greatest weapons. I also have to agree that its unfair to unlock everything on the first day chapter 2 comes out. Newer players who aren't loaded with faction will have a big disadvantage in pvp.

Btw pve people dont have a cap for skill points, thats truel, but they still have to play a while to get to the next town that has skills. They also can't by weapons with skill points.

Loviatar · Dec 12, 2005, 10:59 PM // 22:59

since people have capped out and gotten everything this fast it is clear that they made faction to easy to get.

to get things back into balance so faction keeps its value for newer players how about a cut in half for a trial.?

faction is only a tool it is not a reward.

when the job is finished you put the tool back in the box til it is needed later.

Chev of Hardass · Dec 12, 2005, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Well, Sniper, bud, I don't want to hear you complain about you not having a PvP only slot. I have deleted two; level 20, completed the game, been to the UW/FoW for lots of skill points, characters. I refuse to delete any more at this point. I have three characters, and one PvP only slot.

And if you cared to scroll up you would see that I have changed my tune.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chev of Hardass

Well I guess I cannot wait to see the entire guild wars population playing one of two (?) more professions through the game as soon as Ch2 releases.

I guess we can plan on knowing if there are any Assassin based abusive builds from that fiasco.

Kind of sounds like fun, as I type it.

Anyone else want to explore the possibilities of teams based on the new characters on week one of Chapter 2? (looking for exploitiave builds)

If this release goes anything like the last one, I will wake up at servers open and start blasting through.

Guardian of the Light · Dec 13, 2005, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Considering we don't even know if faction is going to be used or not in I don't really care I don't want to get on either side because I can see a flame war coming.

Still it just costs well lets see

3000 Faction for elite
+1000 for each skill x7
-1000 for Res sig
9000 faction

for the build of a new character with new skills. I could live with it.

Monseir · Dec 13, 2005, 01:15 AM // 01:15

/NOTSIGNED
What if Anet makes the mistake to be able to unlock /weps/skills/armor/dyes/prof with faction? Chap 2 would be boring with 100k+ faction.
KEEP THE FACTION CAP!

Phades · Dec 13, 2005, 05:46 AM // 05:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar[B

FACTION IS A TOOL (NOT A REWARD) TO UNLOCK IN PVP RATHER THAN PVE TO EARN YOUR PVP REWARD OF FAME/RANK AND NOTHING MORE.[/B]

Put a cap on exp earned per character. It is quite literally the same thing under the current game options for skills.

The only fine difference between the two is the pve character can get cool looking armor and weapons, while the pvp can choose which rune and weapon upgrade he unlocks. A pve character can also buy said items with gold from another player or rune trader as well. This is ignoring the broken economics that encompass the game of course.

Personally id be all for a forced exp cap, in addition to more strict wealth caps per character and account as well. Sure stacks of commodities would become more valuable and people could in theory open up extra accounts just to hold junk and money. The stacks of commodities are just commodities and aren't really needed, in addition to being provided from npc venders. Only a couple of them are hard to come by and only used with things that could only be described as luxury items. Extra accounts for mules would merely just add revenue to ANET anyway.

Banebow · Dec 13, 2005, 06:19 AM // 06:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

Put a cap on exp earned per character. It is quite literally the same thing under the current game options for skills.

Skill points buy skills, nothing else. Faction buys skills, upgrades, and runes. Even if faction could buy only skills, the cap would only harm you once you had every skill unlocked. So. . .what is the problem? I need no more skill points on my character once he has enough to unlock every skill, same as you need no more faction once you have everything unlocked. So feel free to cap my experience, at enough to give me 450 skill points. Chapter two increases the cap, just as chapter two will give you something to spend your faction on. I cannot spend my skill points on anything after I have unlocked all skills on one character. You cannot spend faction once you have unlocked all skills. Seems fair to me. What do you care if I can continue to gather skill points? It is going to take work (yes, you won't be able to just higher a runner here, sorry) to get the new skills, the new elites, in chapter two. You can jump into competition arenas for an hour and buy an elite.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

If you have less than 10k faction starting a run in any PvP venue your faction is not capped; you cannot lose out on gained faction while in a run.
If you have 10k+ faction when starting a run you are SOOL. Should have visited the priest. That way at least I'll never be screwed - any set cap you could hit in theory and lose out on faction.

Something most people could be perfectly happy with. Removes the problem of a cap for those who still need the faction, and has no effect on those who don't need it anymore.

So, what exactly is the problem? You are angry that you cannot save up faction to spend on chapter two items? You think that faction needs more things to spend it on, because you somehow deserve it?

I think not.

tafy69 · Dec 13, 2005, 07:25 AM // 07:25

Remove the faction cap and we can get all the new skills on C2 on day 1. Why is that bad? id love that.

PvP chars get all skills and can pvp away
PvE people get to play through the new content to unlock skills, have fun and farm.

I dont fancy playing through pve for 2 days just to get all the skills to start playing tombs again, no thx

ODAR · Dec 13, 2005, 07:45 AM // 07:45

If they don't cap faction, guild with more faction would abuse early exploits of chapter 2, and anet won't be at time to update exploits.
This way, new skills will be explored with more time required and exploits would be seen more easy.
Anet don't want to reset guild ladder i suppose. And you don't want that also.
Then, for me is ok the cap to faction.

SaintGreg · Dec 13, 2005, 08:36 AM // 08:36

You will still be able to play tombs with one of the existing 6 classes, you don't even need to buy Ch 2 for that!

Phades · Dec 13, 2005, 10:17 AM // 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banebow

Skill points buy skills, nothing else. Faction buys skills, upgrades, and runes. Even if faction could buy only skills, the cap would only harm you once you had every skill unlocked. So. . .what is the problem?

No pve character earns only exp when farming.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banebow

I need no more skill points on my character once he has enough to unlock every skill, same as you need no more faction once you have everything unlocked. So feel free to cap my experience, at enough to give me 450 skill points.

You are taking the two out of context. Think of it this way, after you get all the skills for one profession combination and +10 skill points equivilant in exp, you may no longer earn exp. This is essentially where the faction level is capped.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banebow

Chapter two increases the cap, just as chapter two will give you something to spend your faction on. I cannot spend my skill points on anything after I have unlocked all skills on one character. You cannot spend faction once you have unlocked all skills. Seems fair to me. What do you care if I can continue to gather skill points? It is going to take work (yes, you won't be able to just higher a runner here, sorry) to get the new skills, the new elites, in chapter two. You can jump into competition arenas for an hour and buy an elite.

You wont need a runner if you are efficent yourself. The only way to prevent a secondary profession change within the first few hours it goes live, is if they make it not possible to do so with chapter 1 characters and force everyone to start from scratch in aquiring the new skill sets. Currently you can store alot more than 10 skills worth of exp after you get everything for one character combination. A pvp character can not. Otherwise the pve characters would probably have to get hit with the nerf bat, in order to prevent the pvp character jumpstarts.

It is not a pve versus a pvp argument. It is a prevention from abuse argument, because we both know that exp loaded character is not sitting there just because it was fun to get loads of exp. The only purpose for such a character is to take advantage of when new skills become available and aquiring them almost effortlessly. There are very few things in the pve that actually require other human assistance. Fortunatly this number has grown some since release. Hopefully this trend will continue and help even out the progression in the new chapter keeping a balanced playing field between players instead of the aforementioned "rushers" to bypass the content in order to get to whatever goal sooner.

Deadlyjunk · Dec 13, 2005, 10:41 AM // 10:41

Will someone please explain the faction cap please? I'm rank 7 and I've never noticed it...

Chev of Hardass · Dec 13, 2005, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deadlyjunk

Will someone please explain the faction cap please? I'm rank 7 and I've never noticed it...

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

I guess that is proof that PvE is the fastest way to unlock everything.

Faction is capped at 10K faction. After you fully unlock your account, you quit gaining faction.

I have been stuck at 85,000 faction since I was rank three.

Banebow · Dec 13, 2005, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

You are taking the two out of context. Think of it this way, after you get all the skills for one profession combination and +10 skill points equivilant in exp, you may no longer earn exp. This is essentially where the faction level is capped.

Faction can unlock any skill, be it from your primary profession, your secondary profession, or neither. Therefore, it would be utterly stupid to cap skill points at enough for primary and secondary, no more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

No pve character earns only exp when farming.

No tombs player earns only faction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tafy69

I dont fancy playing through pve for 2 days just to get all the skills to start playing tombs again, no thx

Then don't? I doubt that you avoided tombs until you had every skill unlocked in chapter one. You might be forced to use your head and unlock skills that help your builds, rather than just grab everything. Did I mention the fact that the assassin won't fit in every build?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

It is a prevention from abuse argument, because we both know that exp loaded character is not sitting there just because it was fun to get loads of exp. The only purpose for such a character is to take advantage of when new skills become available and aquiring them almost effortlessly.

In fact, many of them did play for *gasp* fun. Experience was the side effect. In either case, how is it abuse? It took effort to get that experience, more than I can say about faction. Not to mention that the skills trainers for PvE will take work to get to, unlike the faction skill trainers who are handed to you without any thought on your part.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

The only way to prevent a secondary profession change within the first few hours it goes live, is if they make it not possible to do so with chapter 1 characters and force everyone to start from scratch in aquiring the new skill sets

You are being sarcastic right? Chapter two is supposed to have close to the same amount of content as chapter one. Show me someone who can clear all 30-40 missions of chapter one in 3 hours, and I will be impressed. Show me someone who can do that when they have never done any of the missions before, and do not know where they are located, and I will be amazed. I do not believe for a second that the desert will have an npc to change you secondary to assassin. I could be wrong, I have been before. But the more likely thing is a different outpost, in a different zone. Nor do I think that the skill trainer in ember light camp will provide all the assassin skills, or even all the new skills for the current professions. With the current system, you will unlock things faster by going into competition arenas then you would by trying to fight your way through the entire content of chapter two.